Green Asphalt Makes Believers Out Of Skeptics, 100% RAP

I first wrote about Green Asphalt two years ago, and things were a lot different in 2023. If you compare where the industry and the country were then to where things stand at present, it’s a very different environment that we are all operating in.

Two years ago, the IIJA and the IRA were humming along, and slowly steering the asphalt, road building, and general construction towards a more sustainable future. Recent changes in leadership have already stalled, reversed course, and, in some cases, outright cancelled funding dedicated to the transition. 

In the midst of all this upheaval and uncertainty, Green Asphalt continues to spread their vision, and they’ve made some big strides since I last saw them. At World of Asphalt 2025, we had the chance to catch up with Jim McMurray, head of National Business Development for Green Asphalt, and talk about all that’s changed for them in the last two years.

Making Some Progress In The Industry

Brandon Noel: A lot has changed since we last spoke at your plant in New York! Back then, we talked about struggling to get in front of producers and contractors, but last year during the NAPA Mid-Year conference [Green Asphalt] gave tours to attendees. Now that you’ve had some increased face time with some larger players in the industry, what has the reception been like?

Jim McMurray: So, let’s go back in time, first. We gage the perception of us by looking back ten years, and ten years ago, people were laughing at us and said that 100% rap is impossible. Well, they’re not laughing at us anymore, and I know that doesn’t sound like a lot, but for us, it means a lot. People are coming to the booth now, and they know who we are. Our brand and our recognition, has gone through the roof. People are coming from all over the world to see us at these events.Provided by Green Asphalt

Noel: When people hear about it for the first time, I don’t think the question they first think of is whether they would use it or not. It’s usually: “Is this for real?” When you face that, how do you talk to that person?

McMurray: They usually approach us very skeptically. They don’t believe it, at first. You know, the national average for RAP is twenty-one percent. We’re all talking about net-zero, zero emissions, lowering emissions, and green infrastructure, so how are we still at 20% RAP? We’re still tying one hand behind our backs.

Noel: How do you engage a conversation with producers?

McMurray: That’s one of the first things we ask: How much RAP are you running? And some guys are higher. Some guys are trying fifty percent in some of their commercial mixes, and we like to hear that, because they’re less skeptical. But a lot of guys are doing zero RAP. If they’re doing airport work or Port Authority work, doing State work, they’re stuck around whatever their state cap is.

Noel: I think that the other difficultly is the contractors, the pavers, right? You know, if you can win over the producers, that’s one half of the battle. But they’re not the customer, though. The producers are beholden to the people that are gonna buy the asphalt from them.

McMurray: Our technology is a tough sell because the agencies aren’t ready for it. Let’s say you owned a plant, and you want to do this. Who are you going to sell it to? Are you going to try to convince every one of your customers to use a product that no one’s ever used before?

Overcoming The Barriers One State At A Time

That last questions McMurray asked is ironic, since that is exactly the task that Green Asphalt had before them when they set out into the industry. 

Noel: The biggest thing that I run up against when I talk about your 100% RAP to contractors, is they immediately just say, “It’s gonna be a shit-mix.” They just write it off immediately, and before they can even hear the arguments in favor of it. How do you overcome that kind of stonewalling?

McMurray: (Laughing) Well, everyone knows, you can make a “shit-mix” and you can have shitty lay down whether you use 100% RAP or virgin mix. The proof is in the pudding. We’re working with New York State right now, and they’ve given us a goal post, it’s very similar to balance mix design. It’s called a PEM spec, performance engineered mix. They said, if you want to be taken seriously, you have to meet this spec and we’ll talk. We’ve been working on that diligently for the last eighteen months. We did a couple test runs. We’re doing another two tests in April, and New York State will send down inspectors, and they sample it and they test it side-by-side with our guys. They want to see us succeed.

Noel: It’s good to know that the people who are championing net-zeros and championing efficiencies are actually working with you, and not just throwing down arbitrary roadblocks. But what in other states? What if someone was interested who isn’t in New York?

McMurray: Let’s say we meet someone in Massachusetts who’s interested in 100% RAP. We will reach out to Massachusetts DOT to set up a meeting. We’re not trying to get anything approved, yet. We just want to talk about what we’re doing. What are your concerns? Have you ever heard of 100% RAP? What are your limits? What are your biggest worries? For some of them it’s performance, because no one’s ever done it before. How do you know where your millings are coming from? Do you test them? Do you separate them? They are all great questions!  And it helps us know what information to provide, and then we’ll also join that state asphalt association, just to get to know other members and not be an outsider. That’s kind of been working for us. Obviously, it’s a process, and we’re not a huge staff, so we can’t do all 50 states at once.Megan Perleberg

The NAPA Midyear 2024

One huge opportunity that Green Asphalt had last year was the mid-year conference which was held nearby in Brooklyn, NY, last June. As part of the conference, NAPA offered a guided tour of their plant and operations so that members could see for themselves just what they’re up to.

Noel: I wondered if you had an anecdote from your presentation and the tour you did at the mid-year. In your mind, was that a successful event? Do you feel like you got to win there?

McMurray: I think we went above and beyond, and we actually made mix. We had a spreader and a truck there, and had a paving crew put down 100 feet of asphalt and gave people shovels. You know, I’m so mad. It was, it was really good because, because you can talk about all you want, but we had people who were shoveling asphalt and looking at it and saying, “There’s no way this is 100% RAP,” and that was a win, that felt like a real win. Did we sell a conversion that day? No, but are we are we one step closer we 100% are.”